The Real Secret Service Scandal: Agency Switching to P229 DAK SIGs

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Sig DAK Explained

This is a discussion on Sig DAK Explained within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Dear Friends I read some threads on the Sig Double Action Kellerman and saw misconceptions on what the DAK trigger system was developed for. I …

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  1. August 23rd, 2009 05:51 PM


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    Sgt Z Squad   [OP]

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    Post Sig DAK Explained

    Dear Friends I read some threads on the Sig Double Action Kellerman and saw misconceptions on what the DAK trigger system was developed for. I recently attended a CCP course up at the Sig Academy and it was explained to me as our department is thinking about switching from a Sig P229 DA/SA to a DAK system. This is part of a memo I sent to my people as some of them had this same misconception of what the intermediate short reset option of the system was for. Here is what I learned about Sig’s DAK from the course instructor:

    • The DAK (Double Action Kellerman) system has an intermediate reset which provides the ability of the user of being able to fire the pistol in the event the user short strokes the trigger during a critical incident. The trigger pull for the system is 6.5 lbs. in full DAO (Double Action Only) and increases to 8 lbs. if the trigger is pulled from the intermediate short reset position.

    • Sig recommends and trains so that the system is to be used as DAO (Double Action Only). You will see that they only list the 6.5 lbs. trigger pull in DA on their DAK models specifications sheets. They recommend that users should be trained to fire the pistol by utilizing the full double action trigger stroke so that the trigger is a consistent 6.5 lbs.

    • They have heard of some departments who do not understand what the system is suppose to be for and have been training their officers to use the short stroke after the initial full trigger pull. This is incorrect.

    Hope this clears up some misconceptions about the trigger system.

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  2. August 23rd, 2009 05:57 PM


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    EW3

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    I use the 6.5 lb trigger pull on my P239 DAK and let the trigger reset each time. I have no use for the 8 lb trigger pull and like consistency, so it never gets used.

    I’m beginning to wonder why there is a 2nd trigger reset point at all if Sig themselves are advising people not to use it?

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  3. August 23rd, 2009 10:06 PM


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    Rexster

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    Quote Originally Posted by EW3
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    I use the 6.5 lb trigger pull on my P239 DAK and let the trigger reset each time. I have no use for the 8 lb trigger pull and like consistency, so it never gets used.

    I’m beginning to wonder why there is a 2nd trigger reset point at all if Sig themselves are advising people not to use it?

    It seems pretty clear; the intermediate reset is for folks who might short-stroke the trigger, while stressed. I reckon most of these folks will be those transitioning from other autoloaders.

    I, too, let the trigger reset fully. Being an old sixgunner, letting a long-stroke DA trigger reset itself is old habit. I still use revolvers for deadly serious purposes, along with the DAK SIGs, so trying to learn the intermediate reset is not even a consideration. I don’t want to take the chance of mixing things up, and short-stroking a revolver.

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  5. August 23rd, 2009 11:03 PM


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    dukalmighty

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    Good Post I always wondered how a DAK trigger worked

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  6. August 24th, 2009 02:02 AM


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    kpw

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    The only thing I like about the DAK is the short reset. When I shoot them, that’s what I use. Being a long time Glock shooter, I like shorter resets. Without it, it’s just another long pull DAO.

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  7. August 24th, 2009 02:17 AM


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    nedrgr21 Contrib Icon

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    I like the short reset on my Glock as well. Don’t care for DAO – it’s like purposefully taking an initial crappy trigger pull on a DA/SA gun and making it worse. DAK is taking that concept even further. If there is a short reset available, I want it the same as the initial pull – ie, consistent; not 2 lbs heavier. If I fired a first shot, I bet I’d want that next shot right damn now and not have to worry about transitioning to a different pull. Isn’t that the same complaint with the DA/SA guns, but in reverse?

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  8. August 24th, 2009 02:25 AM


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    kpw

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    If your just trying to put holes in the X, you will notice the pound or 2 but when I got to shoot it with a bit of speed applied (fast for me anyways) at multiple plates, I didn’t notice so much.

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  9. August 25th, 2009 01:38 PM


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    JT

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw
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    but when I got to shoot it with a bit of speed applied (fast for me anyways) at multiple plates, I didn’t notice so much.

    same here

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  10. August 25th, 2009 06:19 PM


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    Rexster

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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21
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    I like the short reset on my Glock as well. Don’t care for DAO – it’s like purposefully taking an initial crappy trigger pull on a DA/SA gun and making it worse. DAK is taking that concept even further. If there is a short reset available, I want it the same as the initial pull – ie, consistent; not 2 lbs heavier. If I fired a first shot, I bet I’d want that next shot right damn now and not have to worry about transitioning to a different pull. Isn’t that the same complaint with the DA/SA guns, but in reverse?

    I wonder what you mean about “an initial crappy trigger pull.” Do you see DA as equivalent to crappy? I am not trying to be argumentative; just trying to understand your viewpoint.

    Just to be clear, I understand a good SA trigger pull, and have also fired pistols with what I consider “crappy” SA pulls. I understand good DA pulls, and have fired pistols with “crappy” DA pulls. I do not see DA as inherently crappy, just different, and there are times I like and use this difference, seeing it as an advantage. I don’t particularly care for the DA-to-SA transition, all else being being equal, so I prefer autopistols to be either all-SA, or all-DA, but that does not keep me from having and using a couple of DA/SA P229s, though my “go to” P229s are DAKs.

    FWIW, I have been shot at, and I have fired a defensive shot, which, BTW, was DA, from a sixgun. This is not meant for bragging purposes, nor to make me look like any kind of expert; just to help folks understand my perspective a bit. Moreover, importantly, I have pointed pistols at folks MANY times, and know what it is like for a few pounds of pressure to be the only thing keeping a weeping black hole from appearing on the skin of another human being. I have done this with DA sixguns and autoloaders, and with 1911s and Browning Hi-Powers. All of these handguns are up to the task, if one has trained with the system, and preferably, the weapon has a clean trigger pull. DA or SA can be clean, or can be crappy.

    Wow, that was long. But, I can’t see editing it down.

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  11. February 8th, 2013 09:52 AM


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    usaeodtechRET8

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    Additional Info Requested

    Thanks for the info concerning the DAK trigger system. I am looking at the P229 (9mm) SAS Gen2 for my next weapon. Since you went to the Sig Academy, I am hoping you will be able to answer a question for me. The descriptive info (P229 SAS Gen2) at the Sig site contains the following blurb “features a new slide design,…”. I was wondering whether that blurb was referring to the Sig engraving or did they do something else to the slide? Thanks for your input.

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  12. February 8th, 2013 09:08 PM


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    kmagnuss

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    3.5 year old thread. Hi.

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  13. February 8th, 2013 11:34 PM


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    MikeyF

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    Not sure about Gen2 but the SAS models have all the corners rounded off to make it easier to draw. SAS stands for Sig-anti-snag.

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  14. February 9th, 2013 09:28 AM


    #13

    kmagnuss

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    Gen 2’s have a longer extractor which you can see in the slide… btw.

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  15. February 9th, 2013 09:46 AM


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    docdozer

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    Rexter makes the best point: training with the system you use.

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  16. February 10th, 2013 04:14 PM


    #15

    imthduke

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    I use the long pull on this one….the pull is smooth as silk

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SIG Talk Gun Forum

Dak trigger vs DA/SA

This is a discussion on Dak trigger vs DA/SA within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; Sorry if this has been discussed in the past but I know nothing about the DAK trigger. Considering a P224 for carry and wanting to …

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Old
11-13-2015, 08:09 PM

 
# 1
philly01
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Dak trigger vs DA/SA

Sorry if this has been discussed in the past but I know nothing about the DAK trigger. Considering a P224 for carry and wanting to know the pros and cons of the DAO trigger. Weight, accuracy, safety, speed, etc.

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Old
11-14-2015, 05:42 AM

 
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Quote:
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Sorry if this has been discussed in the past . . . wanting to know the pros and cons of the DAO trigger. . .

Huge sticky on the DAK trigger.

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11-14-2015, 06:20 AM

 
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Of the three triggers you mention, DA/SA, DAO and DAK, the DAK is far and away my favorite trigger on a SIG P-series handgun. Fairly consistent pull each and every time, ~6# from full reset, ~8# from intermediate rest. In terms of safety, it has the same length of travel from full reset as the DA/SA and DAO, so I would say it is equally safe. If you normally and regularly shoot a striker fired handgun for defense, the DAK would be a fine choice in the SIG line up for you.

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Old
11-14-2015, 07:37 AM

 
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philly01
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What would you say is the popularity of the DAK for Sig CCW pistols. Just trying to get a feel for how many folks prefer this trigger set up.

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11-14-2015, 08:22 AM

 
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I would say what others think of the trigger is irrelevant. The important question is whether it works for you and fits your needs or not. For me, it is the only SIG Sauer trigger I will use for any defensive application. I have plenty of SIG DA/SA and SAO triggers that are used at the range only, but the DAK is my preference for carry and defense.

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Old
11-14-2015, 08:32 AM

 
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It has been extremely popular with LE agencies.

SIG announced recently that they were discontinuing DAKs across all models. They are still new P229s available (.40S&W easiest to find) but I think that all remaining ones ard supposed to be for sale only through the LEO/Military Discount Program. I think that SIG is planning on the P320 striker fired models to be their primary LE product line.

I was able to get my hands on a new P229 9mm DAK (very long time hunting for it) for my wife. Turns out the P229 is just a big too big even with the ergo grip.

But I absolutely LOVE the trigger on that thing. But I have a large collection of DA/SA SIGs and all the fancy models I wanted most were never available in DAK. But if they were, I probably would have had all DAKs in my collection.

You will enjoy it.

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11-14-2015, 08:40 AM

 
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philly01
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Looks like sig and HK are moving to striker fired in the consistent trigger segment.

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11-14-2015, 08:56 AM

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneBallisticInAlabama View Post
It has been extremely popular with LE agencies.

SIG announced recently that they were discontinuing DAKs across all models.

I just don’t know what’s going on with Sig anymore.

Quote:

In other news, Sig discontinued all calibers other than 9mm for the P226, P229, and P239. Again, our inside source was quote as saying “These guns were designed for 9mm, and 9mm is just better than .40 anyway.” Additionally, the DAK trigger system has been banned from new production guns, and all P-series pistols will now ship standard with Sig’s Short Reset Trigger.

Gun News: Sig Sauer discontinues all models but P-series classics and MPX | Gun Nuts Media

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Old
11-14-2015, 09:18 AM

 
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Haha haha! Hohohojo! Hehehehe!

Check the dateline of your link!

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11-14-2015, 09:37 AM

 
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Haha haha! Hohohojo! Hehehehe!

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11-14-2015, 10:40 AM

 
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April 1st, hehe, it was pretty funny and still worth a laugh.

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Old
11-14-2015, 10:46 AM

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philly01 View Post
What would you say is the popularity of the DAK for Sig CCW pistols. Just trying to get a feel for how many folks prefer this trigger set up.

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The honest answer is, relatively few. However, some of the folks whose opinions I respect the most (MC being one) favor the trigger and have very logical reasons for their preference.

I carry a DAK 229 in .357 Sig and certainly see no disadvantages to the system except for the fact that the pull is long and, although lighter than a DA pull, still requires attention to technique. It is less forgiving of sloppiness than an SA pull.

The bottom line is, popularity is irrelevant if the trigger works for YOU.

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11-14-2015, 12:03 PM

 
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I bought a DAK because it was $200 cheaper. And as a toolbox P224, it turned out to be the right trigger for me.

I do want a beater P226 DA/SA for a range plinker though, unless the P210 ever makes it into .357S. I just don’t want to stock another caliber to stock.

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11-14-2015, 01:43 PM

 
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DAK is what won me over to Sig

As a long time revolver affectionado it took the ammo shortage to really make me consider a semiauto for CCW & HD. Tried striker and da/sa. Really liked a used S&W 39 for target work. Couldn’t get 100% disciplined to the da-to-sa shift under stress. Don’t trust striker for IWB carry. Found the hammer fired DAK and the rest is history. Got my 229 as an LE trade, found through this site. Great value now planning on one for my daughter. She thought she wanted a PPQ until she fired mine and caught the SIGNESS.

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11-14-2015, 03:00 PM

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miciah View Post
April 1st, hehe, it was pretty funny and still worth a laugh.

I fell for it hook, line and sinker. LOL!!!

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GoneBallisticInAlabama is offline

 

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